Fwd: [bmdc-wg] 3 email lists, regular meetings and the current controversy

Subject: [bmdc-wg] 3 email lists, regular meetings and the current controversy
------------------------

From: Michael Heichman <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 10:42 AM
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <bmdc-discuss@lists.riseup.net>, <michaelheichman@gmail.com>

BMDC:

We have 3 email lists. The two oldest lists are the larger announce list which are operated by a couple of active members and a general list. The new list is a discuss list which is a small list for those who are active members of our organization.

Near the end of our last regular meeting on 6/04, it was not even on the agenda, a male who has not identified himself as transgender, once again dropped his anti-trans bomb, which exploded the meeting and once again caused a lot of pain especially for our Transgender member.

This male has done this before and has caused harm to BMDC as well as other organizations.

The next day this male used the new discuss list and continued expressing his anti-trans views.

I was upset and called (once again) for his expulsion. Once again this person has caused pain and harm to our group.

I believe that I made a mistake. I do not apologize for anything that I had said at our 6/04 meeting or anything I wrote on email. My mistake was an accident. I posted my remarks on the general list. I meant to respond to that person on the discuss list. I did not mean to send my message on the general list. I apologize.

BMDC exists to address serious global problems and sometimes it is important to have debates.

-Wars are happening around the world. We have had vigorous debates about Ukraine.

-Our planet is being poisoned and we are living in a time of the 6th Extinction.

- The Working Class is under attack.

- People of Color are under attack. POC are being murdered. We do not debate Police Brutality!

- Women's Reproductive Rights are under attack. Women are dying. We do not debate Abortion!

- Transgender People are under attack. Our siblings are being murdered. We do not debate Trans Rights!

Except for 2 of our members. One of them has voluntarily removed herself from active membership. The other person has been the major instigator.

The appropriate behavior is to request that we request in advance that a controversial issue be placed on the agenda of a regular meeting. Then those present would decide whether or not this item would be discussed In the case of reproductive and trans rights, that has never been done. Instead that person once again dropped his bomb and continued his attack on our email lists.

I have been an active member of BMDC since about 2015. I am one member. I have one voice and one vote.

I believe that BMDC has important work to do.

I believe that racism, misogyny, anti-trans bigotry and other forms of oppression do not belong at our meetings or our 3 email lists.

Mike Heichman

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From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 12:45 PM
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <bmdc-discuss@lists.riseup.net>

The discussion is lively and contentious, and is on two BMDC lists, BMDC-Working-Group and BMDC-Discuss. I would prefer that we channel internal controversy to the Discuss list, which is limited to current BMDC activists. But it may be helpful to hear what others say and for others to hear what is said.

As a favorable response to Lita's useful comment about the First Amendment and to the support offered by BMDC for the Dyke March, I initiated discussion at the Sunday meeting and on the Discuss list, on just two specific questions:

- Should BMDC support the first-amendment rights of gender-critical women who have been threatened and assaulted for speaking out?

- Should BMDC advocate the right of lesbians to declare their same-sex orientation?

These questions, which BMDC has not discussed to my knowledge, were quickly called "transphobic". I have asked, without success, what is transphobic about them.

I am OK not to continue to raise these questions for now, because what is important is that we allow each other to express our different views. That is happening and I am grateful that BMDC can be such a space. There are a lot of questions on which we have not voted and probably don't need to vote.

BMDC is a place to join together to resist oppression. This includes the oppression of the female sex (women born with female parts) and the oppression of trans and other gender-nonconforming people. It is important that we have active members of all oppressed groups. The kinds of people who join BMDC are usually the fiercest advocates for an oppressed group.

In the case of trans persons and female-bodied persons, rights or interests may sometimes come into conflict. For example, transwomen may wish for inclusion in women's sports, but natal women may wish to have some sports categories limited to female-bodied competitors for fairness. We need to be able to discuss such issues. We should expect and appreciate that some will defend their views with strong words.

The resources that Lita and Jane have provided on the issue under discussion are helpful and informational. We should work to include Jane and Lita, and others, in our conversations.

David

On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 10:42 AM Michael Heichman <bmdc-discuss@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

BMDC:

We have 3 email lists. The two oldest lists are the larger announce list which are operated by a couple of active members and a general list. The new list is a discuss list which is a small list for those who are active members of our organization.

Near the end of our last regular meeting on 6/04, it was not even on the agenda, a male who has not identified himself as transgender, once again dropped his anti-trans bomb, which exploded the meeting and once again caused a lot of pain especially for our Transgender member.

This male has done this before and has caused harm to BMDC as well as other organizations.

The next day this male used the new discuss list and continued expressing his anti-trans views.

I was upset and called (once again) for his expulsion. Once again this person has caused pain and harm to our group.

I believe that I made a mistake. I do not apologize for anything that I had said at our 6/04 meeting or anything I wrote on email. My mistake was an accident. I posted my remarks on the general list. I meant to respond to that person on the discuss list. I did not mean to send my message on the general list. I apologize.

BMDC exists to address serious global problems and sometimes it is important to have debates.

-Wars are happening around the world. We have had vigorous debates about Ukraine.

-Our planet is being poisoned and we are living in a time of the 6th Extinction.

- The Working Class is under attack.

- People of Color are under attack. POC are being murdered. We do not debate Police Brutality!

- Women's Reproductive Rights are under attack. Women are dying. We do not debate Abortion!

- Transgender People are under attack. Our siblings are being murdered. We do not debate Trans Rights!

Except for 2 of our members. One of them has voluntarily removed herself from active membership. The other person has been the major instigator.

The appropriate behavior is to request that we request in advance that a controversial issue be placed on the agenda of a regular meeting. Then those present would decide whether or not this item would be discussed In the case of reproductive and trans rights, that has never been done. Instead that person once again dropped his bomb and continued his attack on our email lists.

I have been an active member of BMDC since about 2015. I am one member. I have one voice and one vote.

I believe that BMDC has important work to do.

I believe that racism, misogyny, anti-trans bigotry and other forms of oppression do not belong at our meetings or our 3 email lists.

Mike Heichman

---
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List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>

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From: <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:01 PM
To: <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>

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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 8:43 PM
To: <porchpotscott@proton.me>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Michael Heichman <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 10:42 AM
Subject: [bmdc-wg] 3 email lists, regular meetings and the current controversy
To: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <bmdc-discuss@lists.riseup.net>, <michaelheichman@gmail.com>

----------
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 7:56 PM
To: <xulingkelley.bmdcantitrans@blogger.com>

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Fwd: [bmdc-wg] 3 email lists, regular meetings and the current controversy