Fwd: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
Subject: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
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Agree
"I write for those women who do not speak, for those who do not have a voice because they were so terrified, because we are taught to respect fear more than ourselves. We've been taught that silence would save us, but it won't." "There is no thing as a single-issue struggle because we do not live single-issue lives." "Revolution is not a one time event." ~Audre Lorde
Of course! I want to elevate everything you said and I can't even imagine that the pain this causes. You are not alone in this fight!
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From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
This is all heartbreaking! Everyone of us is here because we care about people. We don't get paid, it's not for fun, it's toxic and draining and damaging to mental health in general. I care about everyone! Can we realize that there is not a FAIR option on the table right now and that the government is to blame! It's 2023 time for society to change and time for the government who has unlimited money for war to fund the changes that need to be made in order for justice & equality for ALL! Let's stop fighting each other and demand real solutions. Don't you think this is what they want? With us at each other's throats and setting up situations that can never be fair for all they are purposefully setting us up to do exactly what we are doing. While they sit back and laugh and what the show.
Admitting that there are biological differences between the male and female body is not anti trans! Of course trans women are women but that does not change these differences in the body.
If you are saying that a person who believes it's unfair to have biological women and trans women compete against each other in sports due to these differences that this person is anti trans, if that were true than my neighbors and good friends who have a transgender son would be anti trans for not allowing their child to play highschool football with biological males due to the great risk of injury to their transgender son because of these biological differences! The school would have allowed my friend's son who is a transgender boy to play as he wanted to be a football player but in the end there was no denying the great risk to him being injured due to once again these biological differences.
Is any of this fair?
NO it's not, it's not fair for anyone! It's a lose-lose situation with no good solution being offered.
Do I have the right answer to make everything fair?
No I don't, I wish I did!
Some ideas;
Single bathrooms and shower stalls for all
(No labels) a bathroom is a bathroom
Sports having more sections than just men women girl boy
Sports designated by body mass & strength rather than sex & gender
Idk but most importantly everyone deserves to be respected and treated fairly. I wish we can be more respectful to each other. I wish we could realize we are being set up to fight each other because then they (the government) has succeeded in demolishing our work that depends on our cooperation and unity with each other.
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From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 4:00 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 4:00 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
I hear Heidi and Padma. We have work to do to stop war, racism, and the attacks on immigrants and others. We have differences among ourselves on some things but can find consensus or take votes on what to do. To do this we need to keep democratic discussion norms.
Knutson is quoted saying, "Medea Benjamin is the main purveyor of Putin's justification for invasion on the U.S. left." https://www.startribune.com/local-antiwar-groups-are-divided-over-u-s-military-aid-to-ukraine-in-the-war-with-russia/600280115 A web site of those organizing the protest against Benjamin gave a different account:
https://itsgoingdown.org/minnesota-not-very-nice-opposing-medea-benjamin-in-minneapolis
This is part of a disturbing series of attacks on women and nasty accusations against antiwar speakers. It appears that some defenders of Biden's policy on Ukraine wish to smear and silence opponents of the policy.
An alarming physical confrontation is reported outside a Minnesota meeting where Medea Benjamin. "Benjamin used her cell phone to shoot video of Kieran Knutson, an activist protesting her appearance. When someone took Benjamin's phone, Veterans for Peace activist Craig Wood said, he waded into the crowd to retrieve it and was pushed or fell to the ground, where he was pummeled by two individuals. His arm was dislocated and will require surgery, he said. Police were called but there were no arrests."
Knutson is quoted saying, "Medea Benjamin is the main purveyor of Putin's justification for invasion on the U.S. left." https://www.startribune.com/local-antiwar-groups-are-divided-over-u-s-military-aid-to-ukraine-in-the-war-with-russia/600280115 A web site of those organizing the protest against Benjamin gave a different account:
https://itsgoingdown.org/minnesota-not-very-nice-opposing-medea-benjamin-in-minneapolis
This is part of a disturbing series of attacks on women and nasty accusations against antiwar speakers. It appears that some defenders of Biden's policy on Ukraine wish to smear and silence opponents of the policy.
BMDC can be a space where activists work together and coexist when they disagree.
David
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:16 PM
To: <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:16 PM
To: <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
The belief that gender is based on "biological sex" is directly correlated with right wing opposition to transgender civil rights. Their flawed biological basis for gender differences plays into psychological essentialism; and that psychological essentialism fosters prejudices and acts of violence. It indeed IS transmisic, anti-trans language.
Fact is, transgender people in the US only make up 0.06% of the population. The number of them in sports is much lower.
The same people pushing this transmisic rhetoric are also against trans people using bathrooms and other spaces according to their gender. Their flawed logic would also exclude and discriminate against trans women from receiving services for rape crisis & domestic violence, etc,
The people pushing these anti-trans rhetorics indeed ARE anti-trans
The transphobic people doing this, when they say "biological male" are intentionally invalidating transgender women. It is an act of othering. It is exclusionary. They refuse to call transgender women women. YES, it is antitrans! Referring to a transgender woman as "biological male" IS transphobic!
If we're going to get into biology, why then do these transphobes never bring up neurology, endocrinology, genetics, etc? The biological things that contribute to making a person trans in the first place? We did not choose to be trans! Trans people also have brain-structural alterations that differ from our sex assigned at birth! As a trans woman who has gone through hormone replacement therapy and gender reassignment surgery, my neurological and endocrine system are no different than yours or any other woman, nor do I have the strength and muscle of a male,
When it comes to transgender rights and issues, listen to the trans voices, not the cishetero/cisnormative objectors who wish to assert their flawed opinions on the matter!
Opinions and facts are not the same thing. I am stating facts!
As a trans person, I'm telling you, YES, the conversation IS very transmisic / transphobic. That may not have been your intention, but it is.
On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
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From: tommie w <tommieworrall@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:40 PM
To: <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <holson3@outlook.com>
From: tommie w <tommieworrall@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:40 PM
To: <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <holson3@outlook.com>
Awesome response, Lita. No matter how many transphobic comments we receive, us trans folks will always have the right to exist in public spaces. If we want to play in sports with cis people, we can and will! Trans freedom will win!
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From: Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:42 PM
To: <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, Lita Xú Líng Kelley (via bmdc Mailing List) <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Padma Balasubramanian <padma_balasubramanian@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:42 PM
To: <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, Lita Xú Líng Kelley (via bmdc Mailing List) <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Agree
When so many attacks are taking place against trans women in particular we should show solidarity without any reservations.
Sports issues are not the most important topic to discuss at this time.
Housing and employment for people, stopping attacks against the working class,immigrants and LGBTQ community , stopping the military industrial complex and finance capital from causing more damage to the poor in the world are our priorities.
In struggle
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From: Patrick Malloy <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:45 PM
To: <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Patrick Malloy <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 12:45 PM
To: <holson3@outlook.com>
Cc: BMDC Working Group <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
This circular firing squad is classic cointelpro.
Trans rights are human/worker rights.
-Patrick
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:01 PM
To: tommie w <tommieworrall@gmail.com>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:01 PM
To: tommie w <tommieworrall@gmail.com>
Thank you.
Good to know there's another trans person on our list. Any chance if you know other trans people that are on our list? I'm going to call for David Keil and Jane Binkerd's expulsion from BMDC.
Good to know there's another trans person on our list. Any chance if you know other trans people that are on our list? I'm going to call for David Keil and Jane Binkerd's expulsion from BMDC.
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From: Prema Bangera <prema.bangera1@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:13 PM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, John <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: holson3@outlook.com <holson3@outlook.com>, bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Prema Bangera <prema.bangera1@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:13 PM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>, John <john.r.harris@verizon.net>
Cc: holson3@outlook.com <holson3@outlook.com>, bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
As a Cis-women of color, who is now witnessing this group have more transphobic email threads (for more than one time), I ask to please be unsubscribed to this email list group. It was already too much for my email storage and this has been reason enough. You will lose all partners for this behavior.
I'm going through a lot both personally and professionally and for me to take the emotional labor is feel the need to voice my opinion is taking a lot. I'm choosing to voice my opinion because trans people do not need to be constantly fighting for their rights, even here. Cis-people need to take accountability of their privileges. This thread and past threads are utterly disgusting and disrespectful.
The thing I ask folks to do is actually educate themselves. It's more important to educate on the history of gender conformity than to play nice with one another.
Using the term "biological women" is in fact a transphobic term. One's biology doesn't determine gender, even scientifically. This is entirely a white-Euro concept. At this point, a more appropriate term to use is "female assigned at birth" or "male assigned at birth."
Things to consider:
Look up the racist history of sports in general and commodification of bodies for personal gain.
Look up the history of sports of denying women and people of color (predominantly Black people) from entering sports - people of color dominate sports spaces due to so-called biological reasons that white athletes didn't want to compete with (should we keep Black people from playing sports for biological reasons so white athletes can have the frivolous wins??) and keep in mind that White Americans setters breeded the African community into enslavement to produce the strongest.
Look up the actual science of white European's social construct of gender assignment.
If you want to fight for racism and immigration and feminism, you're not doing anyone any favors if you don't stand for all of us!!!
Look up intersex people, how common it is, look up two-spirit communities in so-called USA lands that destroyed Indigenous communities, look up Hijra and Kinner communities in South Asian communities which were all revered and honored prior to European colonization. White cultures destroyed so much of our trans and other cultures!
Look up the fact that hormones created a western culture of determination of gender and most people are on a spectrum regarding testosterone, estrogen, hair growth. The XX and XY chromosomes are entirely white rhetoric and highly sexist and racist too.
Look up the history of suicides happening around the world of Cis-women / people assigned female at birth who are denied entrance into many sports due to high testosterone levels.
Many Cis-women are actually physically stronger than many Cis-men so cut that BS out!
Gender is a social construct. It is scientifically on a spectrum. If you cannot fight for all of the oppressed, please leave the small masses to fight for us few.
Trans folks don't need Cis folks to feel comfortable with changes, they need actual changes to take place in order for full human rights to be met. Not half-hazardous ways Cis folks want to make it work. This is not about Cis-comfort. This is about Human Rights!
Respectfully, Do Your Actual Research Before Causing Actual Harm into the Community!!!!
PS: the friend who didn't allow her transgender son to play in a sports team even when the school allowed it is actually transphobic and creating harm for the child on an emotional level. Many Cis-mothers are actually sexist when they deny sending their daughters from participating in male-dominated fields in order to "protect" them, and many parents of color are also actually racist in that same way. Having a Black friend or child or partner doesn't *not* make you racist. Same applies to trans folks.
-- Prema G. Bangera
Pronouns: she | her | hers
_________________________________
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM
To: Prema Bangera <prema.bangera1@gmail.com>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM
To: Prema Bangera <prema.bangera1@gmail.com>
Thank you so much for speaking up. I appreciate you and your effort.
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From: Prema Bangera <prema.bangera1@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:43 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
From: Prema Bangera <prema.bangera1@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 1:43 PM
To: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Of course! I want to elevate everything you said and I can't even imagine that the pain this causes. You are not alone in this fight!
In Solidarity,
Prema
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From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 3:45 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 3:45 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
The BMDC Work Group list has temporarily become a forum for debate on the meaning and appropriateness of terms like "trans rights," "transphobia," and "biological sex". We do not all agree on these matters. BMDC has voted to support the rights of trans people, and Tommie W. expresses the view of BMDC in saying that "trans folks will always have the right to exist in public spaces." The voices of trans people should be heard, as members of an oppressed group.
I hope that the Work Group list will return to BMDC business, as discussed and decided by active members of BMDC who agree to carry out its decisions. We are organizing an anti-imperialist picnic on July 4 and are witnessing an escalating NATO war in Ukraine, brutal mistreatment of immigrants, and denial of reproductive rights of women. BMDC plays an important role annually in bringing together forces for a united May Day action.
BMDC does not require the use of terms like "cis" or a uniform definition of transphobia. It does require that all members respect each other, including in their assertion of gender identities.
Maybe we can agree voluntarily not to use terms like "biological women," and not to label the use of certain ideas or words as "transphobic" unless there is an explicit such intention. My understanding is that those in BMDC who have used the terms "biological women" or "biological sex" support BMDC's defense of the rights of trans people against violence and discrimination.
I am refraining here from commenting on matters of sports, or the pediatric use of surgery and hormones, or whether there is such a thing as biological sex, or whether sex is "assigned" at birth or observed by pediatric staff. I do know that some doctors use the terms "natal male parts" and "natal female parts" to describe patients medically. Such natal parts correspond to XY and XX chromosomes respectively.
It is quite important that we listen to women in BMDC who have natal female parts and XX chromosomes, because they have had experience with sexism since birth.
I agree with John that a better place to discuss controversial and undecided issues is a discussion list like BMDC-Discuss. I would like to post the relevant comments of this thread to the BMDC-Discuss list for discussion, and I assume that authors of contributions will not object.
I think that if we discuss our concerns in a calm way, then we can easily agree on language to use that is acceptable to all.
David Keil
I hope that the Work Group list will return to BMDC business, as discussed and decided by active members of BMDC who agree to carry out its decisions. We are organizing an anti-imperialist picnic on July 4 and are witnessing an escalating NATO war in Ukraine, brutal mistreatment of immigrants, and denial of reproductive rights of women. BMDC plays an important role annually in bringing together forces for a united May Day action.
BMDC does not require the use of terms like "cis" or a uniform definition of transphobia. It does require that all members respect each other, including in their assertion of gender identities.
Maybe we can agree voluntarily not to use terms like "biological women," and not to label the use of certain ideas or words as "transphobic" unless there is an explicit such intention. My understanding is that those in BMDC who have used the terms "biological women" or "biological sex" support BMDC's defense of the rights of trans people against violence and discrimination.
I am refraining here from commenting on matters of sports, or the pediatric use of surgery and hormones, or whether there is such a thing as biological sex, or whether sex is "assigned" at birth or observed by pediatric staff. I do know that some doctors use the terms "natal male parts" and "natal female parts" to describe patients medically. Such natal parts correspond to XY and XX chromosomes respectively.
It is quite important that we listen to women in BMDC who have natal female parts and XX chromosomes, because they have had experience with sexism since birth.
I agree with John that a better place to discuss controversial and undecided issues is a discussion list like BMDC-Discuss. I would like to post the relevant comments of this thread to the BMDC-Discuss list for discussion, and I assume that authors of contributions will not object.
I think that if we discuss our concerns in a calm way, then we can easily agree on language to use that is acceptable to all.
David Keil
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 5:37 PM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 5:37 PM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
No David. I will NOT "agree not to label the use of certain ideas or words as "transphobic" unless there is an explicit such intention", because, one, I am not labeling anything. I am stating fact, and I expect that when it happens that people are called out for it, No exceptions! Transphobia, transmisic, antitrans, whatever word I choose, I WILL call it out every time, just as I would also call out racism, Islamophobia, xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia, antisemitism or any other form of bigotry. I will not be silenced! I will stand up and fight back! Two, focusing on the intent devalues my experience of the interaction. Denying impact by focusing on intent can be more destructive than the initial interaction. You & Jane caused harm to not only me and trans people, but to Boston May Day Coalition's reputation in the community.
Take responsibility for the impact of your actions. I am sick and tired of this conversation.
Take responsibility for the impact of your actions. I am sick and tired of this conversation.
Boston May Day Coalition lost a lot of partners and speakers for may day because of the transphobic rhetoric put out by you and Jane back in February. Our entire international solidarity series cancelled their scheduled events with us that month, as well as our speaker on Malcolm X for Black History, Several members and friends have withdrawn participation and support as well. People I value and care about.
You have a history of transmisic rhetoric that have caused problems in Green Rainbow Party and the Socialist Party as well, and I will NOT tolerate it here in BMDC.
I will NOT allow you to ruin everything our comrades have been trying to build together the past few years, I
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From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 8:52 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 8:52 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
I hope we can reach an agreement on how BMDC can move forward based on common political concerns for justice and equality. I suggested, "Maybe we can agree voluntarily not to use terms like 'biological women,' and not to label the use of certain ideas or words as 'transphobic' unless there is an explicit such intention."
My suggestion fell flat. Lita pointed out that expressions of bigotry, whether intended or not, have a harmful effect. I withdraw my suggestion. I also withdraw the suggestion that BMDC members not use the term "biological women." That term is a way that many people refer to women born with female parts, and they do so as a concession to the demand that everyone abide by a new definition of the word "woman.".
Because Lita is right that good intention is no defense, I must suggest that we consider the possibility that this whole conversation in BMDC, since February, has been full of misogyny. I use that term as it has been used to refer to hatred of female humans, since ancient Greece, where it was misogunia. By female humans I mean persons with natal female parts (NFP).
The misogyny in BMDC comes from the society, as promoted by the two major parties. The kind we are hearing in BMDC is of the Democratic Party variety. Misogyny is misogyny and hurts females regardless of the intention. (Thank you, Lita.)
Let me ask you, Lita, what was transphobic about my asking the following two questions at a May BMDC meeting?
- Should BMDC support the first-amendment rights of gender-critical women who have been threatened and assaulted for speaking out?
- Should BMDC advocate the right of lesbians to declare their same-sex orientation?
These questions were about misogyny. The persistent threats against, and physical assaults on, women who speak out for women's rights is selective and misogynistic. Two well-known targets are Kellie-Jay Keen (UK political figure) and Riley Gaines (US swimming champion). The demand that lesbians be silent about their attraction to other females is misogynistic and homophobic. I have asked the above questions multiple times without reply.
Is it transphobic to talk about misogyny and about violence against women to silence women?
Our problems in BMDC burst out in February when a female member misgendered another member in strong language. She apologized in writing. After her apology, a motion to censure her was nevertheless introduced at a Sunday meeting. I voted for the motion and it passed, but the motion resolved nothing, because immediately the rest of the meeting was devoted to discussing what else to inflict on the censured member as "accountability". The meeting that judged a woman consisted of seven male-identified males and a transwoman. I stated that I regretted my "yes" vote and said that it had been an all-male meeting. In doing so I implicitly misgendered the transwoman member contrary to the rules. I have said that I regret doing so. I accept the rule against misgendering.
Trans members have spoken up and should speak up. Female (NFP) members have spoken up and should speak up. I am speaking up against misogyny in BMDC. Its main expression has been the attack on women's rights to speak up about sex and gender. A UN rapporteur on women's rights has expressed concern about the silencing of women on this issue. BMDC should voice the same concern.
When women say that women's sports should be all female, they are within their first-amendment rights.
We can take up the rights and wrongs of women's sports, the medical transitioning of children, and other expressions of misogyny, including the abuse of language, biology, and science, on the Discuss list.
David Keil
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 10:00 PM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 10:00 PM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
I will not allow you to minimize what occurred in February. It was not some innocent misgendering. It was a nasty attack against transgender women full of hateful rhetoric and personal attacks! It was intentional and an outright attack! How dare you downplay this.
I am not going to debate any of this with you! I'm tired of your twisting things around to fit your narrative.
I am not going to debate any of this with you! I'm tired of your twisting things around to fit your narrative.
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 5:57 AM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 5:57 AM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Trans women are women.
When we say women, that word always includes trans women. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it. A woman's gender identity is her innermost concept of being female. A trans woman's gender identity doesn't define or caveat her womanhood, it simply describes her journey to womanhood.
Transphobia is offensive and harmful.
Many policies that were created to target trans women and girls, from "bathroom bills'' to anti-trans sports legislation, are super invasive for everyone. Bathroom bills, bills that aim to ban trans people from using the restrooms of their gender, ask women — all women — to prove their femininity. In one example, a cis woman was harassed and told to leave a Walmart bathroom because she was confused for a trans woman. This policy is offensive and embarrassing to anyone, especially women who don't perform femininity in a "traditional" way. Anti-trans sports bills, bills that aim to bar trans women and girls from playing on sports teams that correspond with their gender identity, also ask all women to prove their womanhood. Many bills that have been heard across the country go above and beyond to be invasive and harmful, some even going so far as to force kids to turn in doctor's notes with proof of their genitalia.
At the end of the day, anti-feminist ideology wants to police women's bodies, and that includes trans women's bodies.
Feminism must account for all the unique and specific ways women are marginalized. This includes race, gender, sexuality and more. Racism informs transphobia, which then informs sexism and so on and so forth.
It's important to point out the ways in which transphobic ideas are rooted in racism. If one does not fit the mold of "traditional femininity" (i.e. white, thin, etc.), one is other-ized and their womanhood is questioned. More often than not, the gender of women of color is delegitimized. This goes back centuries. You may remember learning about Sojourner Truth's now-infamous speech entitled, "Ain't I A Woman." Through this, she argues that she is treated less than because she is Black and the way she is treated specifically targets her womanhood.
Today, women of color in sports consistently have to prove their womanhood. Many elite athletes, like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya, have been forced to provide evidence of their womanhood through invasively investigating their chromosomes and testosterone levels. This fight isn't just against transphobia — it's against racism, sexism and all the intersections.
None of this is up for debate, Your accusations of BMDC being misogynist are slanderous lies. Just because Jane is a woman it does not give her a free pass on her antitrans attacks. Her being censured for her attacks was 100% justified and she was let off with a warning. She has since then, in the past week violated that warning close to a dozen times.
According to the above points, your own rhetoric is misogynist.
Your presence here in BMDC is a threat to all of us.
----------
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:15 AM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:15 AM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Heidi has stated that we can all coexist peacefully in BMDC despite our differences, and that our work "depends on our cooperation and unity with each other." Let's hear these recommendations.
We are open about concerns that transphobia and/or misogyny are present, among other forms of bigotry. Any meeting, whose participants were all born with male parts, and that censures a woman, after her apology, can be assumed to be burdened by a presence of misogyny. (I did not accuse BMDC itself of misogyny.) My questions about violence against women for speech, and inappropriate sex-related demands of lesbians, remain unanswered except to accuse me of transphobia. The entire left is male led, passively or actively hostile to women, and in tune with Democratic-Party politics.
I repeat that there is room in BMDC to handle all the differences that divide us. Saying that a member's "presence" is a "threat," because the member has mistaken ideas, is an open declaration of war on democratic process. It is not, however, grounds for disciplinary action against the declarer. Further recommendations by Heidi may help us.
David
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From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:37 AM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:37 AM
To: <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY ANTAGONISTIC! STOP HARRASSING ME! THIS IS ABUSIVE! LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
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From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:37 AM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:37 AM
To: xulingkelley@gmail.com <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Ok I have a bunch of scattered thoughts hearing these different points of view that I feel compelled to share here.
This space is supposed to be where we can talk about issues without fear of being purged. We do not all agree. We can learn from each other and hopefully find some common ground or at least agree to disagree. BMDC is a coalition of people with different views coming together to work on multiple issues. I do believe some folk's views can be hurtful to others and that we must always do our best to treat each other with respect and kindness. BMDC voted to support trans rights in general with no opposition but that being said it does not demand that we all believe exactly everything that is being labeled trans rights. We are being set up for a lose - lose fight. There is no solution being offered that does not hurt one section of people to protect another. Either way the coin flips someone is losing.
My friends are not anti trans for making the best decision that they could possibly make that was also lose - lose situation for their child in contrary to what someone on the list proclaimed. They have done everything to support their transgender son, they debated with the school to have him allowed to play football which everyone was concerned for his physical safety it was not that anyone wanted to exclude him. In the end, the parents decided to protect his safety because male & female bodies are different that is fact. I say that not to exclude or hurt anyone, this is fact.
Cis men are stronger than transgender women, transgender men & cis women.
Transgender women are stronger than cis women but weaker than cis men.
Transgender men are weaker than cis men.
Cis women are weaker than cis men and transgender women.
There are medical studies that one can look up on these facts.
This is why we as society need to find a better solution to the sports issue. It's lose - lose for all women. Cis woman, transgender men and Transgender women should work together and demand a fair solution because its always us who lose, you don't hear Cis men debating transgender men in sports because they never lose they always win, they are the strongest by nature.
We as a society should advocate for single bathrooms and locker rooms too! Some people especially some who have been raped by a person with a penis view the penis as a weapon. A person who possesses a penis can have 2 hands free to hold another person down and use their penis that they can control to be hard and like a stick to forcefully penetrate any person but the ones most at risk are cis women and children. We should not have to share a bathroom/shower with anyone, including our own gender. When I am out with my kids I have to take them in the "women's room", I have a 10 year old son, we get looks, but I refuse to allow my child to go to the bathroom without me or my husband in public because it is dangerous. When my husband is out with my kids he has to take my children in the "men's room", with my 7 year old daughter and she walks by men using the urinal in open sight with their penis out. When my kids were babies my husband had a horrible time because a lot of "men's rooms" don't have changing tables. This again is lose - lose. We can fix this for everyone. And the government should be forced to fund these needed changes.
Some people who are opposing the sports issues are not against transgender women, they are seeing it as a loss for cis women of all races.
Some people who are against the bathroom issue are not against transgender women, they are in fear of those who possess a penis being in a situation where one can be taken advantage of.
I am not saying any of the above is correct. I am saying we should understand that people have different views for a reason many not out of hate for others.
Right now cis men are set up to win and cis women, transgender women and transgender men are not. By fighting each other and seeing each other as the enemy we are not focused on change that is fair for all.
From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Lita Xú Líng Kelley <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2023 5:57 AM
To: dmkeil@gmail.com <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2023 5:57 AM
To: dmkeil@gmail.com <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
----------
From: tommie w <tommieworrall@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:45 AM
To: <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <dmkeil@gmail.com>
From: tommie w <tommieworrall@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:45 AM
To: <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Cc: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>, <dmkeil@gmail.com>
David, you are entirely missing Lita's points. Referring to trans women as "people with male parts" is not only transphobic and rude, it's harassment. Referring to people by their genitalia is demeaning, dehumanising, and frankly disgusting on your part. Learn to refer to trans people as they want to be referred to. It's not hard.
----------
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 11:55 AM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 11:55 AM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Peace. We can coexist based on common political objectives.
Time to move all reference to sex, gender, transphobia, or misogyny to the Discussion list.
----------
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:05 PM
To: <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 10:05 PM
To: <queenritamonkey@gmail.com>
----------
From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 5:42 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 5:42 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Heidi Olson <holson3@outlook.com>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2023 9:17 AM
To: dmkeil@gmail.com <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2023 9:17 AM
To: dmkeil@gmail.com <dmkeil@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
Yes I very much agree! These conversations should take place in the discuss group which we voted on. The work list should be for business. I am sorry I posted here as well. I will not be discussing this any further on the work list and I encourage others to do the same and utilize the discuss list if needed.
From: bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net <bmdc-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of DAVID KEIL <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2023 3:45 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2023 3:45 PM
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
----------
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 8:48 PM
To: <porchpotscott@proton.me>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 8:48 PM
To: <porchpotscott@proton.me>
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM
From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM
----------
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 7:59 PM
To: <xulingkelley.bmdcantitrans@blogger.com>
From: Lita Xú Líng Kelley <xulingkelley@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 7:59 PM
To: <xulingkelley.bmdcantitrans@blogger.com>
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM
Subject: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
From: Heidi Olson <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 10:35 AM
Subject: [bmdc-wg] Stop the hate! Stop tearing each other down! Enough is enough!
To: bmdc@lists.riseup.net <bmdc@lists.riseup.net>